tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post7803792968567751537..comments2023-10-24T08:00:53.865-05:00Comments on Federal Tax Crimes: IRS Guidance on U.S. Persons with Foreign Assets and, Coincidentally, Quiet Disclosures on FBAR Delinquencies (12/9/11)Jack Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14469823736335455874noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-41913140046162008042013-06-14T10:16:56.417-05:002013-06-14T10:16:56.417-05:00I infer that you were filling out the Form 8938 fo...I infer that you were filling out the Form 8938 for 2011 to file an amended return for 2011. I see no particular reason you should not amend the FBAR, even though the amendments are not material (in my opinion).<br /><br /><br />As to whether anyone compares the two forms, who knows. And, if they spotted the relatively minor discrepancy, would they be concerned. Again, who knows. I would not think they would be concerned, but I don't manage the IRS.<br /><br /><br />Jack TownsendJack Townsendhttp://www.tjtaxlaw.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-45616717514693389222012-06-29T14:52:28.687-05:002012-06-29T14:52:28.687-05:00These are not all the facts that someone would nee...These are not all the facts that someone would need to give you advice. But, if there were no facts that are inconsistent from the reasonable inferences from these facts, a go forward strategy would be the best for you and, in my judgment for the U.S. and its citizens.<br /><br />Go forward means compliance with the U.S. tax lows (including taxation of worldwide income) for 2011 forward.<br /><br />Jack TownsendJackTownsendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-49191285762576952332012-06-29T13:45:37.021-05:002012-06-29T13:45:37.021-05:00Hi Jack and Others who can help,
can you help me t...Hi Jack and Others who can help,<br />can you help me to come to a conclusion<br /><br />Came to US in 2006 .<br />Transferred money from US to India to use in sisters marriage in 2008 that made the account total more than $10k(about $16k)<br />Have Rental Income of 250$/PM 2008 onwards which i did not know has to be reported in US .I pay an EMI roughly the same amount as rent. I am paying the tax in home country.<br />What is my best recourse , Should i go for OVDI or just submit the amneded taxes and FBAR from 2009 onwards.Ashunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-78408943810626273502012-06-21T14:16:37.191-05:002012-06-21T14:16:37.191-05:00Thanks Jack. Most tax practitioners suggested eith...Thanks Jack. Most tax practitioners suggested either OVDI with 27.5 or just go forward. And your advice also is in same lines. I will go forward then. Does it make any difference to do online fbar vs paper filing. Is one less prone to getting caught than the other?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-76970786154687112452012-06-21T12:30:59.383-05:002012-06-21T12:30:59.383-05:00I am also resident alien and was on visa when I fi...I am also resident alien and was on visa when I filed for OVDI. I did it because I knew my tax preparer had screwed up and I did not have risk tolerance for audit risks. I know Jack mentions in his blog that the outcome upon audit will not be any different than upon an opt out but that is yet to be tested - I did not want to be a test case so I chose the path of least resistance. As Jack mentions different people have different levels of risk tolerance.Fountainheadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-37182964670474337912012-06-21T12:28:14.982-05:002012-06-21T12:28:14.982-05:00I dont know if anyone responded to you but you ABS...I dont know if anyone responded to you but you ABSOLUTELY need to file FBARs. Your visa has NOTHING to do with your tax status. Not only FBAR from this year onwards you have to file Form 8938.Fountainheadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-81528965272634987812012-06-21T10:03:14.000-05:002012-06-21T10:03:14.000-05:00I know that but the present will become the past a...I know that but the present will become the past as time goes by. if a taxpayer can ignore the past responsibility (which is claimed to be legal), then it is just one year to put up with -- and likely IRS won't find out. Then it becomes the past -- does it ?<br />Then we can use the argument what means IS -:)ijhttp://ij.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-26535826510007064342012-06-21T09:06:45.676-05:002012-06-21T09:06:45.676-05:00Let's say he closes account in 2012. He has t...Let's say he closes account in 2012. He has the 2011 FBAR filing requirement due June 30, 2011 and the 2012 FBAR filing requirement for June 30, 2011. And he has the income tax filing requirement for 2011 (but he may have already filed that) and then for 2012. The income tax filing requirement is for both income and for Form 8938. Continuing his past errors into these filing requirements is not an option.<br /><br />Then, of course, assuming all foreign accounts closed by 2012, there will be no FBAR filing requirements for periods after 12/31/12.Jack TownsendJackTownsendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-7408255889536400382012-06-21T08:56:52.109-05:002012-06-21T08:56:52.109-05:00 ij, there is a filing requirement for 2012 even i... ij, there is a filing requirement for 2012 even if the money is 'gone this year'. And there is still a filing requirement for 2011, too for another week. So the 2nd option is not legal.Guestnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-44557033469872958382012-06-21T08:42:11.532-05:002012-06-21T08:42:11.532-05:00Jack,
I would say this
minimum of go-forward...Jack, <br /><br /> I would say this <br />minimum of go-forward is not a legal option either. There is a SOL of 6 years of FBAR, and the Fed asks to amend the missing files with a letter of explanation. This is just like play a "catch me if you can" game.ijhttp://ij.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-31552810958530209112012-06-21T08:21:15.788-05:002012-06-21T08:21:15.788-05:00Jack, once the offshore is gone -- what is to cont...Jack, once the offshore is gone -- what is to continuing the error ?ijhttp://ij.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-48092801244199326472012-06-21T08:12:59.398-05:002012-06-21T08:12:59.398-05:00You do have options other than joining OVDP 2012. ...You do have options other than joining OVDP 2012. However, whether those options are best for you requires detailed inquiry into your facts and risk tolerance. Certainly, the minimum is go-forward with all tax compliance done correctly (including the FBARs due 6/30/12).<br /><br />Jack TownsendJackTownsendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-43209755291029963562012-06-21T08:10:55.941-05:002012-06-21T08:10:55.941-05:002d option is not a legal option. The past is the ...2d option is not a legal option. The past is the past. But continuing the errors of the past is not the solution.<br /><br />Jack TownsendJackTownsendnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-13929101343091017272012-06-21T06:00:21.542-05:002012-06-21T06:00:21.542-05:00Going forward means you know your responsibility a...Going forward means you know your responsibility and know your past fault but choose to look forward only -- is this what our dear President wants to be re-elected --- he does not want voters to look at his past 3 years record --but look forward for his next 4 years plan -- change we believe in -:)<br /><br />Now back to your issue,<br /><br />There are two ways of going forward. 1. Keep the money offshore and file FBAR and report income going-forward. 2. Get rid the money offshore and file whatever you have been doing in the past. <br /> Would be 2nd option much better ? ijhttp://ij.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-61144430893199310052012-06-21T00:48:36.063-05:002012-06-21T00:48:36.063-05:00I'm a resident alien for tax purposes (just re...I'm a resident alien for tax purposes (just recently found this term). I've offshore accounts for about 100K, all of which is US taxed income. But the interest income which was taxed by the banks at offshore, was not reported here due to lack of knowledge. The amount of tax owed for past 2003-2010 is about 2000 - 3000 dollars. OVDI is a very expensive proposition as it would cost be about 40-50K with all legal fees etc. Will it be too much risk to go forward only with FBAR showing 100K+ ? I've multiplee accounts and many linked certificate of deposits tied to these accounts. I wish I knew about this obligation for even visa holders. Some are suggesting to do nothing and stay quiet as there is much risk involved. There is so much pressure and doubt, nothing seems right anymore.<br /><br />Jack, just me and other learned gurus, your advice would be very helpful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-35347491556679054102012-05-25T14:09:18.802-05:002012-05-25T14:09:18.802-05:00Do people who are on H1 and their green card is in...Do people who are on H1 and their green card is in processing, have to file these FBARs too?<br /><br />I know for tax purposes, based on substantial presence the H1 taxpayer is considered a resident alien, but for FBAR purposes, am not sure.Rock&HardPlacenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-78887302454726910342012-02-01T18:37:30.957-06:002012-02-01T18:37:30.957-06:00Thanks for the info, Jack. However, to what extend...Thanks for the info, Jack. However, to what extend does a dual nationals need to report his/her foreign assets? In my situation, I live and work in Taiwan using my Taiwanese identity. I pay tax to Taiwanese government and I have $0 income from the states. All my foreign assets (assets in Taiwan) are under my TW identity. Unfortunately, I do need to file U.S. tax return because I have U.S. citizenship and some property taxes. I asked many people including several accountants, but they all have different answers. So does anyone know if I need to report those foreign assets even if they are not under my U.S. identity? Because clearly the assets are not belong to my U.S. identity. I do want to be compliance but by reporting them, it's possible to open up more paper filing and double-tax potential, which is painful consider that I don't live in the States.<br /><br />ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-24043500283710538772012-01-04T16:19:08.776-06:002012-01-04T16:19:08.776-06:00I have no such meaningful information at this time...I have no such meaningful information at this time other than the IRS's repeated claims that big brother is looking. I will try to post when I hear of anything meaningful (rather than just rumors that have no basis). Perhaps other readers have something meaningful and could post via comment or send me an email with the information to post as a new blog entry.<br /><br />Jack TownsendJack Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14469823736335455874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-34378247965356471232012-01-04T15:30:17.301-06:002012-01-04T15:30:17.301-06:00Jack,
On your news and rumours page, there is an...Jack,<br /> On your news and rumours page, there is an excerpt about audits on quiet disclosures. Is there any info on how these audits are being initiated? Is it being triggered by first time FBAR or amended returns? Are the audits being initiated along with processing of the returns? or afterwards? Appreciate if you have any other info in this regard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-9346091601397875502011-12-30T16:18:02.819-06:002011-12-30T16:18:02.819-06:00To I am and Anonymous @ December 30, 2011 1:30 PM....To I am and Anonymous @ December 30, 2011 1:30 PM...<br /><br />If you haven't picked this up, there is another group blog of Canadians who have recently started commenting on all the issues that you and your friends were unaware of. It might also provide you with links or additional information or advice which Jack can not provide here to help you with your decision process. The entire foreign account issues, FBARS, the OVDP, OVDI, VD programs and FATCA and DATCA (Domestic) regimes that are following it are not something you can just ignore any more. We/you may not like it, but being and staying compliant, is not getting easier, and if you have an intention to hide or willfully ignore, that is getting more difficult. <br /><br />Here is the link to the About page. You can read to see if there is anything of interest to you...<br /><br />http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2011/12/14/about-the-isaac-brock-society/Just Menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-42561575004683084032011-12-30T14:15:52.229-06:002011-12-30T14:15:52.229-06:00To Anonymous @ December 30, 2011 1:30 PM
I am sor...To Anonymous @ December 30, 2011 1:30 PM<br /><br />I am sorry, but I can't give you advice over this blog. You say you are a U.S. resident, so you can at least relatively easy seek counsel who can develop all of the facts relevant to any decision you should make. Please note that I have a list of attorneys who do this work in the right hand column near the top.<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Jack TownsendJack Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14469823736335455874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-3676881540685564682011-12-30T13:30:01.296-06:002011-12-30T13:30:01.296-06:00Hi Jack,
I am a US resident and I have maintained...Hi Jack,<br /><br />I am a US resident and I have maintained an offshore account for a few years now and it had more than 10K USD during most of the years 2008-2011 (12k, 16k, 6.0k, 12K). I also earned interest on the deposits in the account over the period 2008-2011 (~$170 in total).<br /><br />Unfortunately, neither did I report the little interest earned in my tax returns nor did I file the FBAR - purely out of my own ignorance for the laws. The account was purely intended just as one for transferring money to support my ailing parents and never was as an investment. I now realize there was interest accumulating across the years because of parking the funds for short durations. I also missed the deadline for the OVDI program - as this whole issue was brought to my attention by a friend just this week.<br /><br />As I read thru the various blogs and articles, I realize what a mess I have got myself into, all due to my non-willfull mistake.<br /><br />What makes sense for me to do now? Should I call the CI @ IRS and prepare for a voluntary disclosure or should I approach a tax attorney? Or should I prospectively file for FBAR for 2011, report the income and hope for the best? The concern here is what are my options if I get audited?<br /><br />Thanks a lot for the wonderful Blog that is so informative.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-45621319884161306772011-12-30T08:57:29.588-06:002011-12-30T08:57:29.588-06:00Thanks very much for all those replies. I will re...Thanks very much for all those replies. I will read everything suggested and may be back for more questions/advice.... I have not even considered disclosure of any kind other than 'quiet' because anything else seems to be an admission of intent/guilt with little room for explanation, and certain high penalties. I will never accept that I am a 'criminal' because of some clerical errors made on my behalf.<br /><br />If I do get an attorney, do I need to go back to the US to deal with it all there? My ex-CPA relative (who helped get me into all this) advised me to call the IRS office in the country I reside and discuss it with them, but somehow that doesn't seem like a good idea....<br /><br />As for living out of the country, I was planning on moving back to the US next year after 16 years away - with my foreign fiance'. I guess that will make me less "safe". I don't have any property - only savings, and stocks (some in the US). <br /><br />This whole situation and law is so awful and sneaky. I have various US friends living in Europe who I have contacted since discovering this rule, and none of them have ever heard of it (most did not even know the had to file in the US, as I didn't).<br /><br />Anyway, thanks again - it's good to at least have some level-headed discussion about this.<br /><br />OP (I am)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-79242470765514921762011-12-29T09:41:51.239-06:002011-12-29T09:41:51.239-06:00Sad to say if I am wants to be in compliance he ha...Sad to say if I am wants to be in compliance he has to somehow play the IRS Russian Roulette game. If on the other hand if he is willing to take risk knowing the potential down sides involved, than that is a different matter all together. Becoming compliant on a forward going basis or even doing a quiet may be viable if one understands the risks and potential costs if it blows up. Both of these actions are counter to IRS guidance. Doing nothing will not lead to compliance and will continue the dilemma of being a "tax evader". Given the post that I am made, future noncompliance will be willful as clearly I am is now aware of the issues. It boils down to making the decision to clean it up or not and how much risk/expense trade off I am wants to take. I imagine there are hundreds of thousands facing the same dilemma. I did the 2009 program and it hit me hard in many different ways. As bad as it was I would probably do it again because I do not want to live my life in the shadows of fear, darkness and uncertainty. If you get caught there could be even more devastating consequences. These laws suck but it is what it is and the government is using them to extract a lot of money even though in many cases the results are unfair. I did not advocate hiring a practioner to do a disclosure per se. I advocated a consultation to develop a spread sheet of possible corrective actions and their potential civil and criminal costs. I think we all have great respect for Just Me. I think his course of action was consultaion with practioners and then representing himself in the 2009 program. His result was pretty darn good but he also assumed a level of risk to get there. He clearly understood his facts and circumstances and stood by them in the face of the IRS pressure to achieve a great result.<br /><br />Anon123Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1519969502186924526.post-41203673245792179152011-12-29T09:04:51.620-06:002011-12-29T09:04:51.620-06:00'A dual citizen resident in another country li...'A dual citizen resident in another country like yourself is as safe as anyone can be. '<br /><br />This assumes that the dual citizen does not have significant financial ties to or assets in the US, especially assets such as retirement accounts or real estate that would be hard to move abroad. Or expectations of inheritance, or payments from US companies or ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com